March 1, 2007

I will say that your teaching on the cross is right on and just as I teach it. I am dispensational and don't feel the need to force this position despite my ism. Believe me I used to be a Lutheran and your end times explanation would be rejected by them if it weren’t for the fact you dis dispensationalism. It's a shame that there will be some who read this and take it as factual. But the whole from Genisis to Revalation is about the person and work of Christ as He presents the love of the Father. We only preach this. No love lost as we are brothers.

In Jesus

B. [name omitted to preserve anonymity]

Bernie Gillespie's response

Hello,

I am studying to be a youth minister right now and I have a few questions for you regarding the Christ or Baptism article. I want to start by saying that I beleive in all of the scripture. My question for you to think about is this: Where can you find (in scripture) that you have the authority to teach that baptism does not save us? In Mark 16:16, of course one who does not beleive will not be saved, because he will not be baptized. So does Jesus need to say, "he who does not beleive and is not baptized shall be condemned."? Faith is more important than baptism, because without faith you will not be baptized. You are correct in saying that Christ is more important than baptism. Yes people can place too much on baptism and start to beleive that the water itself is saving them. I beleive that Christ saves us through baptism. Acts 2:38 clearly says that we must repent and be baptized for our sins to be forgiven, and if you think that you can be saved without the forgiveness of your sins, then I will pray for your eyes to be opened. My favorite part of the article is the wonderful "assumption" made: "It is consistent with Scripture to conclude that faith is the constant means and therefore the "only basis" for salvation in the NT." That was written and thought up by a mans knowledge and is taught nowhere in scripture. I also like the part written: "The second passage is in 1 Peter 3:20,21. It is said that this verse proves that baptism saves a person. But Peter is not saying that." Another assumption and a lie. You said that Peter is not saying that baptism saves a person, yet Peter wrote "baptism now saves you". Make up your mind. Another assumption: "Peter is speaking of baptism as a sign or symbol of the salvation of Christ." Wow, you must be really good friends with Peter to know that he didn't write down everything that he meant. I also agree that we are supposed to go preaching the Gospel, and not to go baptizing. But look at the context. They were arguing about who was baptized by whom and considering the name of the person who was baptizing them. Does preaching the Gospel not include preaching baptism.....? You also left out John 3:5. If this is not talking about baptism, then since you know, would you like to share with me what it is talking about? Because if it is talking about baptism, then your non-saving baptism ministry could be severely hurting peoples souls. I would be more careful to teach from scripture and not Max Lucado, assumptions, or emotions if I was in such a ministry as yours. If you can show me where (in scripture) when one believes, he is saved, then I also will believe it. The saving is in the savior- and Him alone. Very true, but one must come to the savior.

C. [name omitted to preserve anonymity]

Bernie Gillespie's response

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The first book I would recommend is "Grace Plus Nothing" or "Celebration of Grace" by Jeff Harkin, published by Tyndale. The first book is out of print, but it is about to be reprinted. The second is the early version of the first, and ICA Ministries has copies of it for a donation of six dollars. I chose these first because they are easy to read and provide a good entry level, and very practical treatment of God's grace in the Christian life.

Other books that are good are: "In the Grip of Grace" by Max Lucado, "A Violent Grace" by Michael Card, "Putting Amazing Back into Grace", by Michael Horton, "Saved By Grace," by Anthony A. Hoekema, "Growing in Grace" by Sinclair Ferguson, "The Discipline of Grace" by Jerry Bridges. I prefer Horton's book for the deeper approach. These are just a few. There are many other books that I can recommend in the future.

A very good book that requires some thought but is very crucial to read is R.C. Sproul's "Getting the Gospel Right." It deals with the heart of Grace because it champions the Gospel. I believe that is the most important thing today. Obviously, there are very many more, but these are a few with which to start.

I have a more complete list of recommended books at this link Recommended Readings on Grace List

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Unfortunately I hear this story from too many people. What you are asking about touches my heart because the Gospel is the remedy for the struggle you are in. Therefore, let me share the Gospel with you. When one sins, whether Christian or non-Christian, the answer to the situation is the same. This is what the Apostle John says,

It is so very unfortunate that you felt you had such a heavy load to bear. I don't know exactly what you were taught. But, I know that it was not the grace of God. Jesus said, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28,29 KJV). One of the amazing things that occurs today in too many groups, is that they have so many "laws" or "house rules" which are not taken directly from Scripture, which are imposed as criteria for fellowship. Many like you have found it more difficult to qualify for fellowship with these "Christians" than they do with Christ Himself. This ought not to be. Paul directed the churches at Rome: "Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God." (Romans 15:7 NIV)

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We can never please God enough. This is a fact we must accept. One must come to this point before they can truly receive the Gospel. What has happened is that this person has come to the end of himself as a result of trying to keep religion-taught-as-Christianity. Religion should drive you from trusting in what you can do, so that you are ready to accept what God has done. We are not saved by what we do. Scripture makes it clear that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. But, the voice of the Father announced at Jordan, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Jesus claimed that he pleased his Father always. He is the only human who totally pleased God in every way. And, this favor Jesus gained by pleasing His Father, He offers now to you as a gift. Friend, I would encourage you to receive the mercy and favor of God, and leave your guilt at the Cross.

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The most important thing for straightening out your theology is the Gospel and a Gospel preaching church. Study the Gospel, read it, pray it, ponder it until it seeps into every part of your heart and faith. Then it will renovate your theology for you. It will root out the false teaching built up in your mind. Also, I can't stress enough that you need to be in a Gospel preaching church (if you are not already) and serve there as God provides (you may already be doing that, so I'm just affirming that). Then God will guide you to understand your calling as you serve others. "Promotion comes not from the East or the West, but from the Lord." "Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." (Phil. 2:4-8) This is our pattern for ministry: Christ!

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Yes, I expect that the majority of people in the UPCI might dismiss what I am saying out of hand. I also believe that the leadership of the UPCI could not afford to consider what I am saying because it would mean their jobs and positions. It would bring into question their reason for being. That type of threat is usually more than most can face. I realize that movements are very impervious to change. It is the nature of any well-defined grouping of people, e.g. religious groups, political parties, unions, ethnic groups, fraternities, sports fans or youth sub-cultures, to resist contrary views and aggressively reject all attempts to alter it's ethos. Such closed groups provide a safe, secure worldview within which its members can find their identity and meaning. They are part of a team and they want their team to win. But, sadly, these groups, at the same time, impose "restrictive lens" on their members which do not permit them to deviate or think beyond the identifying marks or distinctive beliefs and practices which characterize that group.

Someone within such a group can see this at work in their group by identifying the kinds of questions the leadership of the group refuses to address. These questions are the borderlines between one group and another. The leaders know that facing these questions could lead their members to see the defects in the groups beliefs. There are several other signs of ingroup thinking: 1) Expressions of, "We are the only right ones and those outside of us are wrong"; 2) Rewriting the group's history and hiding important historical information to create the impression for future generations that the past members agree with the present members; 3) Discrediting or questioning the motives of those who have left the group because they challenge the groups beliefs. These are not signs of a healthy, mature group which is open to answer all questions without fear of discovery. But they are marks of a group which has serious conflicts about its identity and feels a need to protect its members from asking questions about their "full" story.

It more often takes a crisis which challenges the prevailing ethos of such a group, or it takes divine intervention, before significant changes can occur. Therefore, I see my role as being one person with a responsibility to tell what I believe, while leaving the changing of minds or hearts to the work of God. If God desires to use what I say to challenge the thinking of a few people within the UPCI, and thereby lead them to the Gospel, I would be humbly thankful. He is the Lord of the Church.

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No, they are not the same thing, even though they may occur at the same time. I have a paper I am working on dealing with the subject of New Birth or being Born Again. It will be posted in the future. But I will respond briefly here.

Remember the story of Genesis 1. God's Spirit moved over the chaos. Then he said, "Let there be light." Then there was light. God did not send light into the darkness. He spoke His Word - the command and promise of light - and the light came out of His Word and filled the darkness. That is what happens in the sinful human heart when God speaks His Gospel into the darkness of our sinful heart. The Spirit works in the heart by the Word and regeneration occurs. When we see the light of the Gospel of Jesus we embrace it by faith and God justifies or counts us as righteous for Jesus' sake.

Regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit to awaken our hearts to the truth of the Gospel - God's work in Jesus to save us. That's what Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about in John 3. Notice in the N.T. whenever it speaks of new birth, it talks about being born again by the Word of God. 1 Peter 1:23 "For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God." James 1:18 "He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created."

Paul states that our problem is that we are dead in sin: Ephesians 2 "dead in trespasses and sins." God had to act by His Spirit through the Word of God to raise us from the dead and turn us to Jesus. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Romans 10: 17). When the Spirit of God opens our hearts to the Word of God which we are reading or hearing, it creates faith. Then we are freed to trust in Jesus as our Savior and God.

When we are awakened to the Truth about Jesus, we are then enabled to trust in Him by the Holy Spirit. Our trusting in Jesus alone as our Savior is the point of justification. "He did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:26); "However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5); "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit." (Ephesians 1:13); "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith." (Ephesians 2:8); "The promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace . . ." (Rom. 4:16).

Now, it is important to understand that there are not several stages. The work of God to open our hearts to understand and respond to Him (regeneration) occurs nearly simultaneously at the moment we believe. The reason we distinguish regeneration and justification is to give God the credit or glory for even our ability to respond to Him. He does not make us believe. What it means is that when we are dead in sin, we are incapable of even desiring God. But, God in grace opens our hearts by the Holy Spirit (regeneration, born again, new birth) to desire, respond to and believe in Jesus Christ. A perfect example of this is Lydia in Acts 16:14 "One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message." He frees us from sins power and enables us to believe. It is all of Grace! It is all glory to God alone!

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I understand how difficult it is for your friend. I have experienced the group pressure and the intense emotional appeal made for us to hold to "the truth", only to leave it and then begin the long hard struggle to work through what I was taught. I understand how anxious one can be. For some, to go back on any of the teachings or practices is thought close to blasphemy. In fact, some of them teach it IS blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Add to this the social ostracization of the "shunning" and you have tremendous forces of fear working to keep you in the fold. Because of that, one tends to suspend any attempt to work through it, and instead, go by default, rather than agonize with the process of working through it. A great deal of patience, taking it one step at a time with loving guidance in the Scriptures, is what your friend needs. Most of all, he needs to be where he will hear a clear, and certain preaching of the Gospel on a regular basis. I can't overstate that! Your friend needs to fully understand that his salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone. That means his baptism does not obtain salvation for him. When he realizes that, he will be able to work through his beliefs about baptism, holiness, Spirit baptism, etc., more clearly.

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I relate very much to what you share. It is almost impossible for someone to understand the experience of leaving the UPCI, if they have not gone through it. You have to go through that yourself to appreciate it. It is extremely difficult to deal with the rejection. Especially from those you have taught and prayed with. I know just what you mean.

I want to caution you first not to feel that you are totally rejected. There are people who love you but don't really know how to relate to you now. There are others who are much like you but they are afraid to let anyone know about their questions and doubts. Others admire you secretly, but believe that they have so much invested where they are they can't afford to believe differently - no matter what you show them in Scripture. Be patient with your friends and family. Trust in God's work in their life. Believe in the power of the Gospel. Don't be contrary and antagonistic. Love them and treat them with grace.

If I can encourage you more, let me say, the movement from "almost family" relations to isolation and rejection is a journey to something greater that God is doing in your life. In an article on my web site called "Unbelievable" I wrote about the heart-rending experience of Jesus, leaving his family and home town to move to Capernaum to obey His calling. They thought he had lost His senses. They tried to make him come home. I found a great deal of comfort knowing that Christ experienced the same thing we have in order to follow God's will.

Every time Israel was jarred from their place of comfort God did it to move them to a place he had for them in His purpose and plan. What is challenging is, by the grace of God, to rise above the pain, loss, and bitterness that our "leaving" has caused, and seeing God's vision for purpose and joy in a new situation. Truly, only the power and beauty of the Gospel can help us do that!

I have found that many of my past UPCI friends may not change the way they relate to me. I must accept that, and bravely move into the "new land" to which God has called me. There are new opportunities and friends to be made, just waiting for you to step into them. I have found all of this to be true personally.

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First, you need to know that I have heard your story many times from others. I say that to reassure you that you are not alone. You would be amazed at how similar the stories are all across the country (and in other countries). The experience of leaving the UPCI is one of the most traumatic one could experience. Everyone goes through an initial stage of tremendous confusion and displacement. Then they try to work through the doctrines, the practices, and the ideas which were drilled into their heads. But, many seem incapable of working through it all alone. Those who try to do it alone - without a solid fellowship and ministry which preaches and lives out of the Gospel, usually end up some where between: 1) another church with similar doctrinal problems and practices, 2) chronic depression, and in some cases 3) despair leading to atheism. God has ordained that we need others.

The chief areas which ex-UPCers ask me about are: Holiness Standards, the Godhead, Baptism in Jesus' name, speaking in tongues, and Acts 2:38. This is very typical. Certainly, these are very important subjects. And because they are the distinctive teachings of the UPCI it makes sense that they are the areas of greatest confusion. What I'm going to say now is very important: Answering these areas is not the first step to healing. The first step is knowing you are saved by believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The only folks I have seen recover from the UPCI are those who soundly understand and embrace the Gospel as understood in the doctrine of justification by faith. When you know that you are saved because God said "whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life," then do you have the inner spiritual strength and security to deal with everything else. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH. Only the Gospel of Jesus can save and HEAL the human heart.

The second step to healing is to find and attend a Gospel preaching Church - no matter the time and effort this takes. See my answer above about how to look for a Gospel preaching church.